The myth of the ‘peaceful’ warrior

Apache warriors, armed and ready to fight, with Geronimo on right.

Apache warriors, armed and ready to fight, with Geronimo on right.

by Zig Zag, Warrior Publications, Dec 13, 2013

A warrior is a person who prepares for and engages in warfare or fighting, not for personal gain but in the interests of his or her community. A warrior defends their people, territory, and way of life. These attributes distinguish a warrior from those who fight for personal motivations, such as money or power. Ideals such as sacrifice, courage, loyalty, and honour are often associated with the warrior.

I believe most Natives would agree with this description of the warrior, and would acknowledge that not only were warriors a vital part of our cultures, but that they also served an important military function in defence of land and people. Some of our greatest heroes as Native peoples are warriors who engaged in armed anti-colonial resistance, such as Pontiac, Tecumseh, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, Cochise, etc.

In the last decade or so, I have seen a distortion of our warrior culture by some Natives that seek to portray warriors as—above all—peaceful and non-violent protagonists. This tendency has increased in the last few years with the infiltration of Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs, with their fetish for nonviolent activities) into Indigenous communities, as well as the Idle No More mobilization of last year, which introduced pacifist ideology on a mass scale to Native grassroots movements in Canada.

About that Sitting Bull meme

You may have seen the meme: a photo of Sitting Bull staring into a camera, with a quote about what a warrior is. I’ve seen it shared numerous times by Natives and others on Facebook, often on Idle No More sites.Sitting Bull warrior quote

The quote states:

“Warriors are not what you think of as warriors. The warrior is not someone who fights, because no one has the right to take another life. The warrior, for us, is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, those who can not provide for themselves, and above all, the children, the future of humanity.”

It appears to be a popular quote, judging by how frequently it is shared. There is truth in it, concerning most Native people’s views on what a warrior was (and is). But there’s two problems with the meme.

First, there is no source for the quote. There are many other quotes by Sitting Bull, virtually all compiled by journalists, military or government officials, who were present at the time Sitting Bull’s words were translated (in the late 1800s). Yet, nowhere in any of the books or websites where his quotes are printed can one find this particular statement with a source attached.

Ian Chadwick, who runs a blog, also looked into this meme quote. His conclusion?

“I have yet to find any source that shows when or where Sitting Bull actually said it. So until then, it remains classified as a bad meme and likely by someone else.”

(“Does this really sound like Sitting Bull?,” posted on March 18, 2012 by Ian Chadwick’s blog)

Chadwick suspects the quote may actually be from one of several New Age mystics, such as Carlos Castenada, Dan Millman, or Paul Coelho. All these authors use the imagery associated with warriors in their spiritual philosophies. These, in turn, are often used by Native pacifists as a means of portraying themselves as “spiritual warriors” while reinforcing their pacifist ideology.

One can imagine the delight that Native pacifists and reformists must feel when they see this meme. One of the most well known warriors, who led his people in fierce anti-colonial resistance, saying that, at the end of the day, the warrior is actually a non-violent actor.

The title of Chadwick’s editorial makes you think: Does this really sound like Sitting Bull? I don’t think so. Here are two quotes attributed to Sitting Bull, and which are sourced:

“I have killed, robbed, and injured too many white men to believe in a good peace. They are medicine, and I would eventually die a lingering death. I had rather die on the field of battle.”

Recorded by Charles Larpenteur at Fort Union in 1867. Published in The Lance and the Shield, by Robert M. Utley, New York: Henry Holt and Co., 1993. p. 73.

A painting of the Nov 29, 1864 massacre at Sand Creek, 40 miles north of Fort Lyon, where a peaceful Cheyenne camp was attacked by US military.

A painting of the Nov 29, 1864 massacre at Sand Creek, 40 miles north of Fort Lyon, where a peaceful Cheyenne camp was attacked by US military.

“I hardly sustain myself beneath the weight of white men’s blood that I have shed. The whites provoked the war; their injustices, their indignities to our families, the cruel, unheard of and wholly unprovoked massacre at Fort Lyon … shook all the veins which bind and support me. I rose, tomahawk in hand, and I have done all the hurt to the whites that I could.”

Recorded by the Jesuit priest Pierre-Jean De Smet after a council with Sitting Bull on June 19, 1868. Published in The Lance and the Shield, by Robert M. Utley, New York: Henry Holt and Co., 1993. p. 79-80.

There can be little doubt that these words accurately express the conditions under which Sitting Bull lived. Like Crazy Horse and many others, he had to kill enemies in order for his people to survive a genocidal warfare being waged against them. Nowadays, we’re living under different conditions in which the settler society is far more divided and fragmented and the logic of attacking any and all whites no longer makes sense. But this was certainly the dominant reality for the Lakotas during the 1870s.

The second main problem with this quote is the obvious contradiction. Even if it were true that Sitting Bull made this statement, we can see in the quotes from Sitting Bull that are sourced that he engaged in a high level of combat that included the killing of enemies.

Four Bears (Mato-Tope), a Mandan chief, painted by Karl Bodmer 1833.

Four Bears (Mato-Tope), a Mandan chief, painted by Karl Bodmer 1833.

Pacifists love this quote because it literally disarms militant warriors. If Sitting Bull, a great warrior and leader of the Lakota, states that a real warrior doesn’t fight, well then who are we to say otherwise?

I think most Natives would agree with almost all the points in the alleged statement by Sitting Bull about what a warrior is. Ideas such as sacrifice, protecting the defenceless, helping those that cannot help themselves, etc. But at the end of the day we must acknowledge that a warrior is also one who prepares for and engages in warfare. That’s part of the sacrifice and how one may need to protect the defenceless.

In order to defend a territory and people, our warrior ancestors had to fight and sometimes kill enemies attempting to invade our lands or raid villages, etc. During the early stages of colonization, our ancestors also had to fight and sometimes kill settlers and soldiers attempting to invade and occupy our ancestral territories.

Nowadays, however, thanks in part to New Age mysticism as well as pacifist beliefs, some Natives are trying to tell us that our warriors were actually peaceful and serene beings who went around helping people by chopping fire wood. There is, of course, nothing wrong with this and I have seen many warriors carry out this function, along with hauling water, constructing shelters, digging outhouses, etc. Let’s not distort our own history or culture, however, in the interests of promoting some idealistic and pacified version of a warrior.

Warrior Culture

The caricature of the “peaceful” warrior is probably mostly derived from Indigenous warrior culture on the plains (such as the Lakota, Cheyenne, etc.), including the practise of “counting coup,” in which warriors who touched an enemy with an open hand, or a coup stick, received a special honour (perhaps a feather notched or painted in a certain pattern).

While Indigenous warfare on the plains may have emphasized such acts of bravery, we should not delude ourselves into thinking that this was the extent of their military actions. Killing an enemy also brought honour to the warrior, and even though Native warfare differed considerably from European forms of genocidal warfare (with far lower casualties for example) it was still a life and death struggle. Warriors did not develop substantial skills in producing and using weapons just so they could slap an enemy on the head.

Nor can we say that the plains Indigenous style of warfare, with its emphasis on personal bravery or its practise of counting coup, was common among all Indigenous peoples.

As a matter of fact, my ancestors did wear masks: Tlingit Raven warrior, painting by Bill Holm.

As a matter of fact, my ancestors did wear masks: Tlingit Raven warrior, painting by Bill Holm.

On the Northwest Coast, among the Kwakwaka’wakw for example, warfare was not conducted to openly display one’s bravery. Instead, stealth, secrecy, and surprise attacks, including ambushes and raids, were far more common (a way of war that also became common in the Eastern Woodlands and Atlantic Coast once Native warriors began to acquire firearms, beginning in the late 1600s).

Among the Kwakwaka’wakw, there were no honours for simply touching an enemy. It was a common practise of the warriors to cut off the heads of their slain enemies as a means of preventing them from carrying out revenge attacks from the spirit world. Warriors carried various weapons that were designed for killing, the most common being a heavy war club. Small obsidian knives were carried to cut the head off slain enemies, along with other body parts. Sometimes these body parts were displayed in front of the house of the warrior that had killed the enemy.

Many aspects of Kwakwaka’wakw culture promoted “warriorism” and were in fact based on warfare. The highest ranking secret society of the Kwakwaka’wakw winter ceremonies was the Hamatsa, which was also the highest ranking warrior society. The Hamatsa was at one time possessed by a spirit that ate humans (Baxwbakwalanuksiwe), and during this initiation the Hamatsa craved human flesh (and for this reason is often called the cannibal dancer). Only by singing songs could the community pacify the Hamatsa so that he could rejoin human society.

Winalagalis (on right) with initiate, painting by Gord Hill, Kwakwaka'wakw.

Winalagalis (on right) with initiate, painting by Gord Hill, Kwakwaka’wakw.

The Kwakwaka’wakw also have a warrior dance known as Hawinalal. During this dance, historically, the warrior would be pierced through the back and legs and suspended from a roof beam by cedar rope. In his hands was small knife which he used to cut himself. Like the Hamatsa, it was songs that pacified the warrior.

The origins of this warrior dance come from Wi’naXwinagim, whose name means “Always-wanting-to-war.” This great warrior would be so possessed by the war spirit, Winalagalis, that even when he returned to his village from war he would go around trying to stab and kill people. The villagers bound him with cedar rope and hauled him up to the roof beams of a house, where they sang songs to pacify him so that he could rejoin society.

The war spirit of the Kwakwaka’wakw was Winalagalis, whose name translates as “Making-war-all-around-the-world.” The dances brought by Winalagalis, including the Hawinalal, are the second most important series of dances after those from Baxwbakwalanuksiwe. The Kwakwaka’wakw term for warrior, Babak’wa, translates as either “hunter of men” or “merciless men,” implying a far more sinister role than simply helping the elderly and chopping firewood.Warrior shit meme

These short examples should show that our warrior ancestors were not just peaceful, non-violent actors. They couldn’t be. The reality of tribal warfare, and later anti-colonial warfare, demanded that there be a force capable of militarily defending territory and people. As can be seen in the Kwakwaka’wakw example, in some regions warrior culture was an important foundation of the overall culture and served to reinforce a warrior spirit among the people.

Today, of course, we are not faced with ongoing military attacks resulting in fatalities. And no one is advocating that we now reclaim the tradition of severing the heads of slain enemies since we are not engaged in continuous warfare. But the last 40 year period shows that we are still subject to violent police and military repression at times (i.e., Oka 1990, Ts’Peten and Ipperwash 1995, Burnt Church 2000, Six Nations 2006, or more recently the Mi’kmaq anti-fracking struggle), along with settler mobs (i.e., Chatteaguay during the 1990 Oka Crisis, and Caledonia during the 2006 Six Nations land reclamation). During such times, there needs to be a force capable of militantly defending our people and communities. By promoting the concept that warriors were peaceful nonviolent angels, we only disarm and disable warriors from carrying out their roles during such confrontations.

Posted on December 13, 2013, in Decolonization, Warrior and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 41 Comments.

  1. The only way to a peaceful resolution to what plagues us is if the plutocratic state of canada removes it self from the equation which would allow the settlers to move forward to re-establish themselves as good citizens on our lands, respecting and abiding by our rules as we are the stewards of our territories which needs to be comprehended.

    We cannot cease to be who we are, the question is is the disease of avarice too much for them to overcome. That will be the deciding factor. The genocide is real and is being carried out covertly and the peaceful warriors are not saving human lives with their efforts. If they cannot be overcome their greedy tendencies they will make open war with us. We are not the ones who are making the war, or bringing the violence, we are not in Europe taking resources from them, we are here on our territories trying to protect ourselves and all we are responsible for, as we have been for thousands of years, something that seems to be often overlooked.

  2. it would also seem, as far as where I’m from, Christianity has done alot of stifling in terms of making Natives “turn the other cheek” and try to be “Christ like” in how they deal with colonial systems of governance and squatter populations in general. It is also ironic, the amount of Natives who will advocate peaceful resolution and talk about not succumbing to anger, but will pat everyone on their left a$$ cheek who joins the Army or Marines and invades Iraq or Afghanistan knowing full well they will more than likely mow people down with automatic weapons. Good article!

  3. The way of the Warrior is resolute acceptance of death.
    If a Warrior is willing to kill, he must be willing to die.
    It is unavoidable.
    There is no such thing as the “Peaceful Warrior”.
    The purpose of a Warrior is to destroy. Violence is an accepted part of the path.
    If you wish to be peaceful, be a priest. If you wish to be a Warrior, put away peace and prepare for battle.
    – Yoritomo Minamoto
    The Warrior’s Path

  4. Reblogged this on Lingit Latseen and commented:
    We need more warrior poets. People who can deliver a formal speech in Tlingit or ambush an armored column, whichever the situation demands.

  5. For me the definition of a Warrior is one who sacrifices his life for a higher good. Our relations of human beings, the natural world and the air and water define “higher good” to me. If I was one I would not be sitting here writing this. I am a pitiful human being who has witnessed the near destruction and pollution of our mother the earth and have not made the supreme sacrifice in her defense so I cannot call myself a “Warrior” even though I’m an U.S. Army veteran. That was over 45 years ago now I’m an elder to some people, just a survivor.

  6. I don’t know much about the Native culture, but this is an incredibly interesting article.

    I must admit though, I’m not a huge fan of militant confrontations, mostly because regular folk, who tend to organize grassroots organizations with the strong militant attitudes tend to jeopardize the well being of the people around them way too often.

  7. I live in the largest Tlingit village located in S E AK in the Tongass Forest. There are 2 locations over 150 yrs old, near us with pictographs in blood attributing to war, that can be seen yet. Our history has 100 yrs of wars and we are STILL in our ORIGINAL HOMELAND, undefeated.

  8. Reblogged this on HaifischGeweint.

  9. i realy learn by knowing your culture many nice and interresting …thoughts abaut life and way of thinking of humanity!!!!thank you soo much for sharing and teaching goods!!!!!love & peace


  11. First we are the RED RACE , not the Black , White,Yellow or Brown races that are Reconize by the World. We have to Think as a ” COMMENSENSE People” accept the Creators Intervention , the ” Unity” which our Women are in Charge NOW, as was the Monarch system , befor 1492, befor their Father God (seperation) was introduce, the TIME of Change is here, the Four Secared Colors have switch , Red has replace White at the top , it’s a time for the new age Warriors to accept direction from our Elders , Remenber ,there are plenty of males now days , but very few Warrior MEN alive, but few is all that is needed, the design is set , the Mothers will show Love and Nurusment vs. war and judgement as the good old boys fadeaway.. blessing to the RED RACE , we have mahistiry this far, now lady’s take Charge.. Me- Ta- Kee – a – Na’zo’na’a ..

  12. It appears that nomadic and semi nomadic nations had warrior societies, probably because of their constant competition for resources against other nomadic nations. However very few warrior societies were present in primarily agricultural societies. The Mexicah (Aztec), Maya cities, had very clear warrior societies and because of their proximity to other indigenous nations and their need for vast resources and power, they forced their neighbors like the Tlaxcalteca to form warrior societies of their own for protection. Warriors were not common among the small communities who made up most of the population and did not live in the cities. This is the case to such extent that there is not word in classical Nahuatl for warrior. The word commonly mistaken for warrior is the word Yaotl which means “enemy”. The word for war is Yayaotl which means “proper of the enemy”. Nahuatl was a language mostly spoken by agrarian communities and their disdain for warriors is apparent in the vocabulary. What this means is that a warrior was seen by our ancestors as enemies, hence if one defend oneself against an enemy one was a defender against the one who is an enemy and carries out enemy like behavior (war).

    • I can’t speak to the particulars of Nahuatl culture, but agricultural-based societies are actually far more militaristic than nomadic ones. In all regions where mass agriculture was developed there arose large professional armies, and in fact civilizations had a need for such armies to expand and conquer tribal peoples.

      • Beg to differ.
        Small agricultural societies mostly arent. Bigger ones, may it be Babylonians, Egyptians or Native South Americans, needed some form of government to settle land disputes and keep track of taxes or other tributes. With this government, that was in most cases more strict and exclusive than in nomadic societies, comes a organised militarization, that does not lead to warriors, but to professional soldiers (people not necessarily fighting for their own or their families benefit but because they are told to do so and geting paid, or they are in some kind of obligation to their landlord).

        As far as I nkow, the Idea of a “peaceful warrior” actually comes from the far east where it originally ment someone who had mastered the arts of war and whos pacifism didn’t come from weaknes but from his understanding that wherever possible a just and peacefull solution would carry less griev for both sides.

      • I have to ad, that as far as i know, the Far Eastern Origin of the “peaceful warrior”, is not very old and may have been born out of a mix of europea-orientalist-romantic views and Japanese/Buddhist culture.
        At least for the last 60 years or so it has been repeated by different asian “warriors” and their, mostly western students.

      • I disagree with this. I just spoke to an elder historian from the band of Mi’kmaqs said this is actually not the case for the Wabanaki people until a confederacy was formed to protect themselves from the Blackfoot, who were percieved as an aggressive tribe by multiple settled tribes in the area who were farming fishing tribes, while the Blackfoot were traditionally more nomadic.

      • Unless you’re referring to another tribe, the Blackfoot are located on the plains (in present-day Alberta, Montana, etc,) while the Wabanaki and Mi’kmaq are located on the east coast. While they were nomadic, I doubt the Blackfoot traveled as far east as New Brunswick.

  13. Youhavea glass of water, you take 16 different droplets , each and everyone is an individual make up , each look the same but are different , just like the 500 plus Lanuages and Tribal ways of the REd RACE, most are gone , wipe off the face of earth because of a reckless RACE, and now , you still try to describe , what , is , and how the RED RACE function , we saved America in WAR WAR TWO , Code Talkers, why not Tell us of your Silly race called Whiteman , or is ” ALBINO” to rich to Reconize , Do you SEE what I mean , wE know who the RED RACE people are, we live it everyday , how about you telling us about your Mental Dease of the Mind, the Dease mInds that ALMOST Distroyed a Still BEAUTIFUL RACE, that well never give up Giveing LOVE and Respect to MOTHER EARTH, she that represents all Women of the World, don’t worry about what our man Sitting Bull, said or didn’t say, ask yourselfs , ” Ask not what I have done to Distroyed America , but that I haven’t Stoped ” than go to any Reservation and ask FACTS, not rewrote whitewash history, do us a Favor and explore ” SELF” now that’s hard to do when your culture , has no Idea what you are, when you say your an AMERICAN , we the REd RACE have a pretty good idea about us , but WHO ARE YOU , if you can’t take care of Mother Earth , America, than your Words Whole no water, tell us the truth about YOU, and your Race would you, FACTS not Lies, would you?

  14. If this Meme disarms warriors they they weren’t warriors…

  15. This is actually only half correct. Our elders talk about being a spiritual warrior. The warrior who stands against illness or the darker sides of themselves or who feeds the positive and works hard not to feed that other side. This is also a type of battle and since all illness is also spiritual, fighting illness is also considered a spiritual warrior. This kind of warrior makes spiritual commitments. The problem here isn’t “new age” or “old age”. The problem is with translating our languages. We have words to distinguish certain things in our languages that we have to settle for a “close enough” or “good enough” when translating because some concepts and ideas are lost through translation. This is a language barrier issue. Not a lack of understanding.

    • A person who cures others of illness is a shaman, or a healer, a doctor, etc., they are not warriors who take up arms to fight others which is by definition what a warrior is.

      • Wrong. Maybe in your Nation, but for the Wabanaki Nation, we consider different types of warrior such as those who make commitments agaunst drugs an alcoholic. There are different forms of battle. There are different types of healers and medicine people too. A spiritual battle can still be fought by a spiritual warrior who is also co sidered a healer. Different roles for the same people at different time. Just like a spiritual elder can be any age. What’s messing people up today is the mass adoption of the concept of hierarchy (many of our Northern tribes didn’t have hierarchy, though I know there are a few that did) and dropping the concept of a circle. It is our way to believe all things are connected and to think in terms of things being connected and related to each other.. It is outside influence that introduced the concept of splitting things up into seperate categories without considering how they are connected.

      • I’m sure if you look at the traditional language terms for these roles they would be very different. For the Kwakwaka’wakw the term for warrior (Papaqa) means “hunter of men” or “man without mercy” while the term for a shaman was Hoylikala (healer or shaman). The Hoylikala may indeed engage in “spiritual warfare” but they would not be referred to as a warrior, which is a person who prepares for and engages in armed conflict. What you suggest blurs and confuses the term, so we’ll end up with “legal warriors” who “fight” in the courts, or “sports warriors” who “fight” on basketball courts etc…

      • The introduction of hierarchy means inequality amongst the people and the breakdown of a circle. It leads to nepostism and competition for prestigue and power, which are ideas that our conquerors use to justify what has been done and what is being done to us.

    • Not to disrespect actual “elders” but we also have to acknowledge the times we live in. Many so-called elders today are just old people masquerading as “elders” to get some kind of notoriety or social reward for being “old and wise.” Many old people are also highly Christianized, therefore, spewing alot of “turn the other cheek” doctrines that conflict with traditional teachings. This can be seen at Standing Rock, where people are always afraid of offending “the elders” to which I might ask, who are these elders and are they recognized people among the community. Are they Christians? Did they use to be yes men for the systems and are now able to use their age to justify a more pacifist stance?

      • The legitimacy of this quote from Sitting Bull is called into question on the premise that:

        “Ian Chadwick, who runs a blog, also looked into this meme quote. His conclusion? “I have yet to find any source that shows when or where Sitting Bull actually said it. So until then, it remains classified as a bad meme and likely by someone else.”

        So, due to the fact that an internet blogger cannot find a source on google, it makes this quote from Sitting Bull illegitimate? I’ll hold out for further research before determining that “Ian Chadwick” and his search browser are ‘legitimately’ qualified to determine historical truth from internet browser truth.

      • Ya go ahead, and maybe do some research yourself. If you ever find a genuine source, let us know. Until then, I’m going to assume it’s some fake pacifist/new age spiritualist propaganda. BTW, did you read and comprehend the Sitting Bull quotes that are at least authenticated?

      • Truthfully it’s not a myth you don’t have to fight hand-to-hand combat to be a warrior nowadays just getting the word around can bring down people such as Columbus and if anybody knows the story of the native prophecy then you will know about princess shikari and bear honorable running rest assured that’s no myth either hope for our people is here it’s not time yet but get ready for purification it has started and I am bear honorable running blood of crazy bear and you should really put crazy bear on the list of great Chiefs because crazy bear deserves it for what he has done for his people he deserves to be on that list no one will tell his story but I’m going to

  16. Wow… Great read.

  17. I dont consider myself a warrior, I sit here every day blocking a gas company access to their site costing them money, while sitting here at the Alton Gas site or now known as Treaty Camp I start to think about what the warrior meaning is to me. I know that a warrior is fearless and will speak truth and will defend their own people from harm by doing whatever it takes if that means picking up a gun or using their heads to prevent a war itself. I understand that the movement has changed a lot from Oka to Fracking in NB to standing rock to unostoken BC and see that things got very different. One thing I strongly believe in is ceremony and the grassroots and grandmothers. Speaking as a Mi’kmaq First Nation father and someone who just wants a better life for my children and future children I’ve learned that Sundance ceremony is powerful and that my own dad and relatives have done that dance in south Dakota pine ridge ogalala and have suffered to pray for the next 7 generations ahead, that being said it takes a lot of courage. The sacred pipe was given to natives to use as a tool to protect the future generations and along are the ceremonies given to the grandmothers to use. A shake tent ceremony also. The waltics bowl. Sweat lodge. Water bundle. Fasting. These are all gifts for our people to survive the next 7 generations. I will keep fighting Alton Gas peacefully and using my Treaty Rights delaying the company because my people fought hard and died writing that paper for the future generations to be able to keep fighting without killing or getting killed . I agree with this article that the word warrior has been tampered with. I understand that we need warriors still to this day and in the future. However I must say that when you believe in winning a war spiritual or political it should be attempted peacefully until that peace has been breached by the oppressor. In other words when the rules of engagement have been broken then yes fire back, like in oka and other hard core battles. Thanks for teaching us the truth of warrior and keep at it Gord. Thanks for the Shirt you gifted me. I will keep on this fight peacefully until we win or get shot at first.

  18. Mr. F. B. Barreras

    I love the part that says that “everyone wants to be a warrior until they have to do warrior shit”! It was fun playing war when I was little but when I was drafted during the Vietnam war it was a terrible feeling realizing that I might die or that I might have to kill someone. Same during Desert Storm; though it was a different type of war for us, the fear of death was still there. One is constantly in fear of death; whether it is a bullet or a 500 pound bomb. At first I thought, “How can I get out of this!” Later, I thought that I needed to do my duty. Don’t get me wrong, there are soldiers out there that live for combat (I thank God!) we need them. It would be great not to need warriors, but up to now, the need has been there in one way or another!

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